I have chatted with Ben Gartner before about the importance of reading. Today is special though – in this interview about his book, The Eye of Ra, we are chatting about his inspiration for the story, its setting, being a writer of books with different age groups audiences. Ben also writes thrillers for adults and is an associate member of the International Thriller Writers.
It was wonderful to connect with him! Enjoy the interview, and get some insights about the book, without any spoilers! 🙂
- We touched upon your inspiration for The Eye of Ra when you were over on The Creator’s Roulette, but I want to be more specific this time. I love Egypt and it always fascinated me growing up (if you remember, that was one reason I could not say no to your review request). Why did you choose Ancient Egypt as the setting for this book?
It’s wonderful to be back talking with you, Kriti. Thanks again for having me.
I chose ancient Egypt for two reasons:
- It is one of those eras about which we know a lot because of the archeological record and yet, at the same time, there are gaping holes in our knowledge that can only be filled by the imagination. There’s so much mystery in that time. It’s also fascinating to try and put yourself in the shoes of an ancient civilization and think about how they might have lived in their day-to-day life. We know more about the pharaohs because of their elaborate tombs, but not as much about the everyday person like you and me. It’s fun to think about what a regular family dinner might have been like, what they might have discussed, what games they might have played together after the meal, what sort of challenges they faced on a daily basis. Of course, there were some fundamental differences in the practicalities of their lives and ours, but I believe there’s emotional resonance that lasts through the eons. Though their physical challenges were certainly different from ours, I believe that on a human psychological level there are more similarities than differences. I believe the same thing about different cultures in our time now and I think the same extends back to the people of ancient Egypt. I wanted to try and convey those “different but the same” aspects of humanity in THE EYE OF RA.
- As you know, I schemed and plotted this book with my boys, ages nine and twelve now. I don’t recall if there was one certain book or movie or whatnot, but they were interested in ancient Egypt at the time. Since then, they’ve moved on to other eras like the medieval times (more on that later) and my sixth grader’s final school project was on the Aztec (which is a strong candidate for book three!).
- Tell us about world building based on an ancient culture. What are some nuances that you had to research and learn more about?
I love research. It is tremendous fodder for the imagination. In fact, I’ve often answered the question about “if you were left on a deserted island and could have one book, what would it be?” with “a dictionary.” Every word is a little mini-story ripe with history and meaning and great for the imagination! I also devoured my hard-bound set of encyclopedias when I was a kid. Imagine my thrill when Wikipedia became a thing . . .
In writing fiction, and especially MG fiction, I want to strike a balance between factual accuracy and entertainment value. For example, while researching the very first pyramid ever built—the Pyramid of King Djoser in Saqqara, Egypt—I came across a bit of history tucked away about the Heb Sed festival [1]. Some Egyptologists believe it was an ancient ceremonial festival where the ruling pharaoh had to run around a track without stopping. If he was unable, then he was deemed unfit to be king and executed to make room for the new ruler [2], while others think that perhaps instead it was actually “instituted to replace [that] ritual of murdering a pharaoh who was unable to continue to rule effectively because of age or condition” [3].
Either way, fascinating research! And you bet I included it in THE EYE OF RA. But I have to be very careful about just lecturing and citing facts like I did above. That’s not very entertaining, or at least maybe not in the context of an action adventure novel targeting a middle grade audience. A reader may think that’s an interesting detail, but it almost sounds made up, so it makes them wonder if they’re learning something or if it’s just a part of the story. Hopefully, that fosters their own research.
That mystery, that questioning the blend of fact and fiction, is my answer on how I aim to accomplish world building for an ancient culture. I want it to be real but fantastical, to stir inquiry and interest in young minds.
I will mention, quickly, one other thing: I don’t aim for factual accuracy 100% of the time. For example, the kids have traveled through time and can speak the language. They shrug this off and “add it to the growing list of oddities” about time travel (another thing I love about MG, they’re so open to this type of trust!). I had one reader call me out that ancient Egyptians wouldn’t have used the term “okay” because it came into our language later. Sorry, but eyeroll. The kids are interpreting the ancient Egyptians’ language and I think it’s perfectly acceptable if they interpret their response as “okay.” If I had made some egregious misinterpretation of the ancient Egyptian people, please call me out on it. But for the sake of story flow, can we overlook the minor stuff and suspend our adult critical and logical minds for a few minutes to enjoy the adventure as a whole? J
- The Eye of Ra is categorized as Middle Grade (MG) novel. How will the adventures of John and Sarah evolve as they get older, or would you keep the stories in MG?
That’s a great question! I have yet to see. Likely, I’ll stick with MG. As of now, I am working on the second book which will be MG. It starts out pretty much days after the first book finishes, so it’s still summer after John’s fourth grade year and Sarah’s sixth grade year, which puts the target audience squarely in the third-to-sixth grade MG bracket.
This decision is based on two primary factors:
- I like MG. This is probably the biggest one for me. I really like this age group. For me personally, it was when I really start to remember my life. I also had some pretty impactful things happen to me in that era that no doubt made me sensitive to that time period. Scientifically, kids’ brains are exploding with neuronal growth during this age and they’re more receptive to the fantastical than they ever will be again. They are soaking up anything and everything and are sophisticated enough to start to fully grok abstract concepts like love and justice and the duality of life (a theme in my books). They engage in metacognition—thinking about thinking—and decentration—the recognition of a shared reality with others, as well as problem solving and deductive reasoning. [4, 5] That is just about as magical as you can get. But what it all leads me back to is the power of the imagination in relation to our pursuit of knowledge, something I’m all about. I think Einstein speaks to it best with this quote: “Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.”[6, see end of article]
- Marketing. As a writer, I sort of hate to call out marketing as a reason, but if I’m writing an MG series, that seems a bit easier to bundle and target. And I wouldn’t want an MG reader to get excited in reading the first two books and then be disappointed that the third is for an older crowd . . . I want my readers to be so excited with the adventures of John and Sarah that they read the series in a weekend.
However, regarding my own kids’ ages, I have a couple of years until my youngest is solidly out of the MG bracket (he’s nine, though even now he’s reading “older” stuff). My oldest child is already pretty much gone from MG seeing as how he’ll be thirteen this year (though he still dips “down” into MG sometimes too; he enjoys a good story no matter the category). Since the process of creating a book takes so long, the window of overlap for my kids and MG is waning already. So, I have considered aging my characters along with them (ahead of them, if I plan correctly), but we’ll see…
- The Eye of Ra has a number of emotional situations like being on an adventure, creating new friendships, being away from home. I tried my hand at writing a MG short story and it was so easy to slip into using bigger words that I have learned as I have gotten older. What are some strategies that you use to be consistent in the voice of your characters, being in their shoes, and not slip into the adult? 🙂
Editing.
Writing for MG has greatly improved my writing for all age groups. I believe that before I wrote MG I tended to get wrapped up and swept away by my own brilliant wordplay (hope you sense my self-aware sarcasm). This blog post may give you a hint of that (ha!). But what I’ve learned is that, speaking for myself, often that wordplay distracted me (and the reader) from the crux of the action. Of course, by “action” I don’t mean fistfights or car chases, though those may apply, I just mean any plot-advancing external activity. By getting too “deep” into the characters thoughts or by using elegant flowery language to over-describe the cracks in the pavement, I lost sight of the flow of the narrative. I can’t help it, using “big” words does still creep into my MG writing, but that’s where editing comes in.
I should also say that I’m not shy about using a “big” word in an MG work where it makes sense to do so. As teachers know, kids should be choosing books that challenge them, where maybe they know 80% of the vocabulary but they’re exposed to new words too. You don’t want to slow the reader down so much that they lose interest, but challenging them and tickling their brain so they have to scratch an inquisitive itch is part of the goal!
- You have written in both MG and Adult genres. Does writing one bring something to the other?
I think I addressed how MG influenced my overall writing just above, but here I’ll respond to the other way around. Has writing for adults influenced my work for a younger audience? I would say most definitely. The overarching emotional themes can be very similar and exploring how a child might react to a situation can provide great contrast for how an adult might act. Because, though the adult may use a more confident tone or bigger words, often they are internally motivated by things that happened to them as kids, whether they know it or not and whether those influences are major life events or just simply how they were raised by their parents. I think we all know some adults who act more like kids. And we’ve all been surprised by a kid who busts out a pearl of wisdom wiser than any adult in the room.
- If someone could take away one thing from your book – a lesson, an inspiration, anything – what would you hope it to be?
Primarily, I want it to be FUN. I wasn’t trying to make it heavy-handed with a “lesson,” though of course there are some themes and I did have some personal motivation for a “message” when crafting the story. One of the main themes of the book is about making new friends, manifested in the story by John and Sarah’s upcoming move and their different reactions to that situation. Then, in ancient Egypt, one of the characters talks about making new friends being all about “shared experience and time.” I like that phrase. Patience is hard for everyone, but I think especially so when you’re growing up and everything seems more important than it may really be.
- Are there some MG books that you have read recently that you would recommend to readers who loved The Eye of Ra?
With my twelve-year-old, we’re reading The Elephant’s Girl by Celesta Rimington, which just launched May 19. It’s a great story that involves a ghost, a treasure hunt, and an elephant that communicates with deep rumbles. We’re enjoying it a lot!
Related to elephants, I also read Because of Khalid by Carolyn Armstrong, which is beautifully written about a boy who lives in Africa and experiences the tragedy of elephant poaching, so it will tear at your heart.
For a quirky, unique, witty adventure that I highly recommend, check out Mulrox and the Malcognitos by Kerelyn Smith about an ogre grappling with perfectionism and his bad ideas that come to life. It’s got some twists and I’d call it a debut breakout hit.
For straight, page-turning adventure, I recommend Young Captain Nemo: Quest for the Nautilus by Jason Henderson. It’s like a cross between A Thousand Leagues Under the Sea and A Hunt for Red October for an MG crowd. How’s that for a teaser?!
And with my nine-year-old, we recently finished The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien, watched the three movies, and are now starting in on the Lord of the Rings books. The Hobbit is more straightforward fun compared to LotR where there are often long scenes of people sitting around talking, but I think my son will have the perseverance for it. On a hike this weekend, he was pretending to be Thorin Oakenshield, holding a fallen log for a shield. I was surprised he kept this up for the last two miles of our nine-mile hike. J
- Where will John and Sarah go next?
For book two of THE EYE OF RA series, my boys and I brainstormed different settings and challenges (both physical and emotional) that we could throw at John and Sarah. We came up with a list, but for the setting they winnowed it down to “swords and castles.” We were scheduled to go to Switzerland for vacation this summer of 2020 (which has since been rescheduled to 2021 because of COVID, sadly), so I was researching castles in Switzerland that we could actually visit, both to provide some fun adventures for our vacation and also some vivid detail for the story. The area of Switzerland and its castles has a very interesting history that goes back to the expansion of the Roman empire. That clash between the native people and the expanding Romans started the spark for the storyline. As I researched more, I learned of a settlement on the Roman frontier called Aventicum, in modern-day Switzerland, that has a gladiator arena, theater, and was centrally located near some key battles between the Romans and Alemanni Germanic people to the north. Additionally, there were Gauls, Franks, Visigoths, the area was a collision of all of these different cultures trying to preserve their own way of life. I zeroed in on the time around 300 CE and engrossed myself in the details of that time, when the Roman emperor Diocletian shared his power and named three co-Caesars to help him manage the various regions. The man tasked with Gaul, including Aventicum, was Caesar Constantius, who plays a role in the upcoming book. There are so many interesting factoids about that time that have actually had a fundamental impact on history. I’d love to share them all, but I feel I’ve already taken up a lot of your time. And that might be a great place to leave you with a tease . . .
Thank you so much for having me, Kriti!
I hope you enjoyed this in-depth interview with Ben Gartner! Here are ways to find him – Website, Twitter, Facebook and Instagram.
The Eye of Ra is available at all major retail stores. I hope you will pick up this Middle Grade novel. 🙂
Amazon Print
Amazon Kindle
References:
[6] “Einstein on Cosmic Religion and Other Opinions and Aphorisms” by Albert Einstein, Quote Page 97, Dover Publication, Mineola, New York. (This Dover edition is an unabridged republication of “Cosmic Religion and Other Opinions and Aphorisms”, originally published in 1931 by Covici-Friede, Inc., New York)
Cover image: Photo by Simon Berger on Unsplash
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